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Hello and welcome to the project management podcast. We'd like to begin today by acknowledging the traditional custodians of the land on which we meet today and pay our respects to their Elders past and present. We extend that respect to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people here today. The PM podcast hosted by James, Luke and Oscar is an educational podcast dedicated to adding value to the project management degree at RMIT University. Spanning three episodes this podcast features engaging interviews with University lecturers, current students, and course program managers. These individuals will provide explanations on course content, engage in career relevant discussions and share personal experiences to offer a comprehensive insight into the PM degree. The primary objective of this podcast is to contribute to the realisation of the the United Nations goal of quality education. All righty let's get into it and I hope you all enjoy.

Hello and welcome to the first episode of the project management podcast, today joined by myself Oscar and my other host James, "How you going?", and then today we also got Luke, he's more on the production side of things today just to answer any questions or pull up anything that we need. "G'day guys how are we?". So today's first episode we're joined by a fellow student and fourth year, Daniel Castle, so Daniel's currently enrolled in the project management degree like ourselves, and prior to that he was studying a Bachelor of Business - Economics and Finance, also at RMIT, he did about a year and a half of that degree and then transferred across, and then now he's working three to four days a week just as as a graduate at Harris HMC, Daniel thanks for coming on, how are you today, "Thanks for having me guys, going well today it's good to be on the podcast". No worries so we'll just start off with the fact that you transferred from your other degree at RMIT, what brought you to project management and how difficult was that decision what what made you come to that so I think initially when I was studying my previous degree of economics and finance it was something I went straight into after after school thought it was something you know I thought could see myself doing after doing economics and business based subjects at school and I never really thought of any other thing so I went straight into that. I was working part-time as a landscaper alongside the studies and stuff like that I finished about three semesters over a year and a half so obviously something wasn't quite clicking and I took a bit of a break in the middle there to figure out what it was I really wanted to do and I looked through all IR I courses I was looking between construction management and project management I decided I want to leave it pretty broad for myself so I wasn't necessarily locked into a construction background but I could move into other things if need be and so  this was the course that I thought would match my skill set pretty well and yeah something I could work with. Do you think the fact that you were working onsite as a landscaper influenced your decision to go into something where you may potentially continue working in construction but as a higher sort of ranking person within the company. Yeah absolutely I think that was one of the main things with not not liking sort of the Economics Finance stuff was the fact that I wasn't going to work for anything tangible I liked building things making things happen sort of seeing tangible outcomes working directly with people was something that I really enjoyed with with landscaping and building buildingå things for myself and others and it was that was probably one of the biggest reasons why I went towards Project based things was working towards tangible outcomes that everyone could sort of see and work with so yeah I think that was definitely a major factor yeah it's really interesting and I think probably a common thought for a lot of students out there that are maybe in another degree that they're not entirely happy with or see a future in that are a little bit nervous about changing or unsure because they think what they've done might be a little waste of time or the financial burden on their hexad or or whatever for for many reasons for you so you're about a year and a half to two years into your three-year degree so quite a fairway into the finance one any advice to someone who's pretty faring to a degree that they're not really happy with in terms of changing because it is pretty scary I know I'd probably struggle with that and coming to the realization that you know you got to start something again just talk us through that process and your headp space through that time and any advice you've had for a student I think the the decision was pretty tough as you say you're sort of pretty far into a degree and all the rest of it but for me it was just I couldn't see myself working in that field for a long time it was just something that I I couldn't imagine sitting at a desk all the time and and working with intangibles all day and I think that you you might it might seem like studying goes for forever cuz it's obviously all you've ever done but you're working a long time so it's important to find something that you really do enjoy you can see yourself working in so I think that decision that you know a year and a half it may be a bit of hex might be a bit of time loss but at the end of the day you're working for a very long time you don't want to be doing something that you don't enjoy or doesn't complement your skill set so I mean for some some you pick it straight out of of high school I think for a lot of people you just go into something that you know you may or not may not have been pushed into by by different you know career counseling things and all the rest of it you see what your family does and and that probably has an influence on your decisions that doesn't really complement who you are or or what you enjoy doing so I think a bit of time's always good you know give some people take a gap here some people go and work for a bit I think it's important to to find that time to pick something that you actually can see yourself doing before you get straight into it 100% coming out of year 12 or like during year 11 12 personally I had no idea what I wanted to do project management was just like I saw it I saw I think I saw a ad on TV I think it was a highx ad and he was like I'm a project man J driver highx oh that was cool wonder what that is looked it up and found the degree I just roll with that that sounds cool and my process behind behind selecting that was I wasn't sure what I wanted to do but I am good with people and the beauty of project management is as opposed to like construction management which is more focused on construction is that the potential for working in a variety of different Industries you the project management degree you get a a job in construction you get you get a job in it wherever there's always project managers in all Industries and I think that's a real benefit of this degree so you know you spoke about not being sure on what to do or being influenced by family probably being a bit naive if you what advice would you give to someone potentially thinking about studying project management they may be you 12 they may be in another degree what advice would you give to them to say project management like try and convince them that project management is a good thing to study yeah I think like you say it's it's a very generalist degree so it's you know if if you're somebody that doesn't necessarily have one passion or something like that that you can see yourself at 100% you want to be an engineer or 100% you want to be in marketing or something like that I think this is a degree for people who just enjoy delivering things working with people I think it's something that really complement somebody with a good skill set of soft skills yeah although you don't necessarily need them to start off with I feel that a lot of people have developed that over the last 3 years just with the way that the work sort of positioned I think that's something the degree grants you for sure absolutely developing those those sort of softer skills you need them you definitely need them they're probably they're more important than hard skills when it comes to I mean you can't train for everything there's a lot of things that happen on the job that you're going to learn your technical side of of things or you know if you're going towards that it sort of thing you might might learn that on the job if you go on construction you learn construction terms you learn you learn all all that stuff but it's it's good to be given a skill set where you can find the answer you're not afraid to ask the the questions or know sort of the way to go about things yeah and good thing about the degree it definitely teaches you a lot of the sort of technical aspects of project management like you know risk management could go on but I think the key things that I've taken away from my almost four years of studying at like my sort of softer skills or my development and growth in things like critical thinking problem solving the way I speak communication that have exponentially increased and I think have made me a much more intelligent and more of a Prof a professional and more job ready y absolutely I think it's a very job ready degree you go into it and and you're more prepared than you think to work in those sort of Team environments I mean you you're working alongside student students for most of the time but when you when you're talking about quite professional sort of Concepts it's not hard to make that transition into an actual en work environment so it's it's really good for that yeah that that's a really good answer and kind of leads on to what we were probably wanting to ask you next if you had to say top three skills of a project manager either you've come in and learned them yourself in this degree or You' re recommend someone who's already kind of possessing these three skills and thus they would then be suited to being a project manager what what would you suggest maybe I mean me personally probably thinking if you're a people person and and you're good at you know chatting to people and that's what you like to do and being on the phone and managing stakeholders that's probably a key skill what what are your thoughts and what are your top three you think yeah I think there's there's lots of different ways to manage projects some people come from more technical backgrounds they're a bit more hard skills and they can still you know achieve things in different ways so it's a degree that traditionally a lot of people come into like project managers at the moment at high ends of organizations usually come from an engineering background or have worked in construction for for many years and then they sort of transition into these these project management roles but I think your new age sort of project manager does come through with the generalist skill set like us it's you know based around communication I'd say your soft skills yeah communication understanding sort of the way that other people communicate is very important so you know you're working with lots of different parties you've got to put on a lot of different hats so you know one day you might be with the trade the other day you might be with the client and and you have to realize that all these different parties go about things in a different way so and learning how to communicate with the different parties you can't you can't talk to your Trad the same way you talk to the executive correct yeah and the and the the project management terminology that you use and just you know I think a really that's a really good point there if you want to Be an Effective and successful project manager from our experience studying the degree you probably need to learn how to communicate differently to different stakeholders for sure yeah and I think like critical thinking is a big thing finding that answer it's you know I'm not technically sort of very skilled you know a lot of these construction terminologies and things like that are things that I've never really heard of but it's just being able to work through the information you given knowing the right person to ask and being you know not being afraid to say you don't know something but you want to find it out so I mean you you get so much better over the course of you know I've only been at the the job at Harris since February but I I reckon my construction terminology and understanding of that process has got you know 10 times better than it was previously yeah and I I can recall a like a lecture a guest lecture from our second year some pretty high up project manager came in and said a good project manager doesn't need to know how to do everything but they do need to have good relationships and know the people who do so yeah you're definitely sort of like very Central and you connect with all the the parts and bring them together it's sort of what I what I found yeah it's I think it's one one big thing that you know I've sort of learned is you need to know how to to bring value in the middle so it's not necessarily just finding out from one person and passing it directly onto the other it's about being able to decipher something in the middle that adds a bit of value so you know you might get from the engineer what this is and then you'll ask four different people and sort of come up with a bit of an answer but you don't necessarily just communicate with four different people what's going on you sort of got to be able to have a bit the critical thinking and and think all right so this person said this how can I put this in a way that is what this person wants to hear and and what they need to know get rid of all the yeah technical stuff for some people or adding it in for others and yeah so obviously you're very construction focused so for us our degree would be a bachelor of applied science I think it's the last year next year changing to a bachelor pram management and you get a minor what do you think of that you know I'm guessing you would minor in something construction like actually Luke do you mind if you get that up and and we can see what the miners are what do you think of that change do you think that it's a beneficial change I think it definitely is like especially for maybe not construction as much because in our early years if you recall we sort of did a few construction based subjects and we sort of do a bit of planning estimating things like that so it was already partially based towards that construction side of things I think it would be pretty important for your it things you you want to go into a a organization with a bit of understanding even like for us it might be doing a short course on on things or understanding some sort of coding background or systems thinkings and things for like it backgrounds but it wasn't I wasn't always thinking about construction as well I think that that's why I went towards project management not construction management me too but when you start looking into graduate positions this was one that I I just thought looked like a really good place to start so I sort of went that direction and I don't necessarily have to stay there I think that no I won't work in construction forever schools are very transferable yeah they are you know construction Stu there can get yeah I work with you know I've got a lot of family friends and stuff that have got it backgrounds and work at different telecoms companies and things like that and that that sort of work really interests me as well but I suppose these early stages it's good to get a foot in the door and and start you know working towards those sort of project management skills and improving that so yeah so just thanks Luke got the miners up for us construction cost and contract management construction Innovation and digital technology managing construction business property technology ology and management property investment strategies sustainability and environmental science managing it projects creative Industries and business for project managers so there's a few there's three three that are sort of construction related a couple that are property related and then you know your environmental it sort of miners what do you think you would have picked well I think if I could go back I mean right now for the job that I'm doing I think that the construction cost and contract management is something that's just really really helpful for early careers in in construction working as a project coordinator or contract admin they're probably the most important things that you do with on a day-to-day but if you want to go into something else like the IT projects or creative Industries you definitely want to get that diversification from your standard sort of construction or project management degree that you might not get in others M no I think it's a really good change to the the degree in the entire program luckily next episode or maybe the third one we're going to have GW on and she can probably touch a bit more on the change in the degree and and tell us more about that so that's really good to see we've spoken a little bit about your grad role and what you're doing and stuff so I'm sure everyone out there's probably pretty interested in in how that came about so just run us through that how did you apply and what the application process was like so I think for me a big part of why I applied for work was because of our professional practice class that we did in the third year I mean before that I sort of you go into these things thinking you know how am I going to work in the industry I don't really have any background or for sure for sure but those those classes really helped with sort of seeing where you can get a start and and going through that process of writing a CV a cover letter interviewing at early stages and things like that I think that was really the driver for me it was you know that most people sort of either working towards getting in the industry or some already started in in that third year and I sort of thought well I might as well apply I've got the CV here it's all done and ready to go so pretty much just sent that one in straight from the assignment and yeah worked out pretty well for sure I think I mean for those that don't know that class was run by GW and she pretty much taught us to write a CV and a cover letter and to be honest I'm still using that cover cover letter as of the last few days and and it's just really good to have like a structure cover letter or CV no cover letter cover letter how do you use the same C cover letter for different no no no no no I apply it I apply it to each you change it up yeah yeah good tip out there read read what they're looking for take that into your cover letter and say how you show that so if they're saying someone has good time management say I work this job and and that that demonstrates that but I didn't know that till G if you actually talk very good yeah and developing that LinkedIn profile and things like that how important that is you know so many people sort of connect with you through that I know that a lot of recruiters and and things like that have got guys jobs and through this and and putting those skills into your thing that matches up with all these organizations that are looking for people and and that just helps so much with that process I even help my sister me old man WR a couple cover letters and make some minor changes to their CVS as well B off of that course very helpful probably one of the more like most handy ones in the whole degree I reckon absolutely yeah that was a really good really good class so continuing on with that the application process so obviously you know you you decide okay I want to get a job now as a student you you look on seek or find anywhere where you can find a job ad you find a job ad ad you submit your cover letter and your CV what what's it like from then on like the interview process how many with your case how many interviews did you have what did you have to do after you submitted that CV and received your first reply so because I think the whole process of interviewing and and stuff has changed since Co and everything that a lot of people have gone to a more digital sort of interview process so for me the first stage past the CVS was they invited me to sit down and do a like a prompt interview so just record I think three or four responses that went for a couple minutes each just with prompts that they would ask in a general interview process that all goes back to them and we got to practice those as RMIT has resources for practicing those those sort of prompt responses which a few people really had helped with their process really really well from there we then I believe we got interviewed we got invited into their head office to to have a one-on-one interview with a couple of the the managers it's a pretty big process I think that you know these programs will get two 300 people applying so you never really know how far into the process you are at any given time but after that I think we got into we got invited to a lunch you know an informal lunch that probably wasn't informal it was more how do you interact in the group it's it's a group setting but they made it more casual so went for a little walk around the sites that we work at had a lunch and then you know we went away and I sort of assumed from that would' been offered the job but apparently you know four or five people didn't get it off the back of that so it's always important to to remember that before it's all finished those sort of informal things sign that paper how many people were on that lunch like actually how many applicants I think there were eight eight there which is about a similar size to the last intake they had and I think they took you probably would have thought you were pretty much home yeah because that was what they would they had taken in the previous year yeah right wow so how long did it take from like you know submitting your SE or say your first phone call to getting the job it's a long process I I submitted my CV I think on the second last day yeah that the app were open so I heard back pretty quickly after that point it might have been the next week yeah but I think the whole process was probably 2 3 months but it would have finished about 6 months before I started the new role so it's it's a long time so you know your 2024 graduate positions the interview process is already finished by August so for anyone looking for those sort of jobs and graduate programs you've got to look good six 12 months ahead really to start and applying and so who are you working for cams there if I'm not mistaken they're an employer of choice sorry my bad they're an employer of choice company correct yeah so and that was one of the reasons why I saw them was through rm's jobs portal that they put out an email every week with a few different positions that pop up so between there and I I was referred to it by a friend who would work there or work with somebody who's working there but the definitely seeing that they're an RMIT employer of of choice is pretty important because from all we hear is that they have you know an obligation to make sure you split your time and your studies and and give you that time for getting through your uni staff and and value that extra education which was something important to me I didn't want to just jump into work and get smashed every other day and at the detriment of my study so how did you find juggling maybe a more serious and dedicated job in in Industry with your studies so you work in three days studying two and did you find that manageable or you needed to ask for more time off or and you felt comfortable obviously because it was an employer of choice that they provided you with enough time yeah I think that definitely like that was one of the the things initially they're very transparent with the requirements of the job when you go through the first process of you know we need you three days two days for studying it obviously can be tight getting towards deadlines and things like that but with that sort of dedication to being a employer of choice and and having a value on your your studies they're very willing to give me an extra day if I need it towards the end of the semester which I've done in a few cases and then just made it up on over the braks and you know they're very very flexible with that sort of thing which is great and the hours aren't they don't let us work more than 10 hours there a day so you know we're not doing those stupid construction hours that some people might hear of yeah it's good yeah and I can bit bit of I can tell a bit of an anecdote you know with yourself you you're able might from what I see you're able to make make it to most classes most weeks and and your work is good and it's not stressing out too much whereas opposed to you know other mates have gotten the course who have jobs that are not employer of choice and they you know they've sometimes can't get to class because they got to work and and it's sort of their work imped their study it's probably it's a definitely the main reason why I have yet to sort of search for a job and just you know focus on finishing my degree and doing well so yeah so obviously you know if juggling studies and work can be hard but if you are lucky enough to get a job with an employer of a choice can definitely be great because now you're going to graduate and you're already going to have a job so once you graduate what's what's the sort of looking like you going to is is it like employment guaranteed will you go full-time straight away what kind of roles could you move on into for me I'm I'm employed just casually at the moment the hours they sort of once I finish up they pretty much they you know work here five days a week I think the maximof whatever hours is set out in the the contract but most people at the end of the the year and the end of the program are off attive position so we've started applying for positions internally now and they'll sort of go through that process again of defining you know where we need people and then looking through all resumés and CVS again so by the end of the year we we'll know whether or not we have a job there or we have to look elsewhere so that's another good thing is that they give us a lot of time and and that program runs to the end of the year but you know we'll have a 3mon period where if if for some reason there's no work there or they're running out of projects or something like that there's there's always an opportunity to go look look elsewhere and Project based work it's it's just everywhere there's there's so many roles every day you see popping up and I don't think anyone really struggles with getting a position at the end of this this degree I think you're pretty much guaranteed work at the moment at least it's but you had to you you said you're in the process of you have applied for the new role you can't you don't just get automatically kind of pushed through into the gradu the one after your degree no because the way that it sort of works is they're looking to fill space in certain teams and things like that so I think it's more about availability and where they need availability and sort of who's the best fit for what team and type of project and things like that so filtering out slack is well potentially I think from that program they're probably only two or three haven't got a position at the end yeah so it's where where do you think you're wanting to go into what's your area that you're interested in I'm working with a good team at the moment that I'm currently in any shout outs shout out some some team members that you're with no I was just the whole the whole organization's very good but yeah a few of the teams I work with have been great some of the projects are quite interesting so you that's important is working on things that you sort of enjoy me what kind of just for the people listening what kind of projects like how big what are they what are you doing what's your favorite they're probably like a midsized or maybe tier tier two to three working around 20 30 million apartment buildings sort of government jobs schools things like that so I enjoy the probably the more technical like live environments I think they're pretty cool to work in not so much the Greenfield stuff or you're just building a new complex or something like that so you know we've worked in I did a job at a prison recently which was pretty cool I I've worked light towers at football stadiums and things like that which were pretty cool currently working at a truck Servicing Center that still has trucks rolling around we have to figure out the best way to sort of build an extension on that while not impeding upon their daily operations which haven't slowed from the start of the project to now so that's pretty cool working on that other side of things is you know extra complexity and no days pretty guaranteed you know everything's sort of pretty pretty volatile which is can be quite enjoyable which is good yeah one thing that I I've sort of seen recently with a lot of my friends are working the way from home opportunities and know that may not be for everyone you know some people they just want to stay in Melbourne if you live in Mel I know that's something you're interested yeah like I I know I have a friend of mine who works for a T2 construction company in Melbourne and he's you know got sent to tralan like Regional areas of Victoria and I think that'd be awesome they they pay for your accommodation and you know come back on the weekends but just cool experience yeah I mean you you've said you've had an interest in potentially working some fifo stuff and in the mining sector and like that so even that sort of works definitely available for you at the end of this degree while you're young yeah I think what's pretty incredible and probably one of the best things about RMIT is wherever you want to go teachers here and the university is going to help you get there because I already know like some people that we're studying with that Gwen or the Job Shop or any of those programs that RMIT runs has helped people get jobs and it was only meting we had the other day that Granny be was talking to James about you know fulfilling his dream of maybe moving into the minds or something like that so I mean who knows next episode you could have a job already James I don't know mate don't about that but yeah so just before we we wrap up was there anything that Daniel if if students wanted to reach out to you and ask for a bit of advice or seek questions about your application process or jobs or anything how how would they best reach out to you and is that okay yeah yeah I mean I think the best way to interact with people these days is through LinkedIn it's a great way to to keep in touch with people and see how everyone's progressing and obviously you can send messages and stuff so anyone who wants to connect with me on LinkedIn Daniel Castle I'll be happy to accept that be the show notes yeah so if you're interested reach out to Daniel send him a message that you listen to the podcast and and you got a question for him shout us out shout out he'll he'll get back here so so yeah I think we'll wrap it up there what do you reckon boys yeah that was really really good conversation thank you for coming on Daniel and providing your time Daniel I know you're busy week week seven are we now coming towards the end definitely ramping up yeah so very busy this podcast the reason we're doing it is in our last semester of our last year we have have to do what's called a Capstone project which sort of combines everything that we have learned throughout the degree into an actal project so up until now we've done plenty of assignments about hypothetical projects but for this we actually had to select come up with a project and actually implement it so I think that's something you never would have thought you could probably do this this well back in the first couple years especially you sort of putting the all these things together and and it's actually coming into something that you can deliver yeah in the way you go about it's not like oh we're going to do a broadcast we get a couple microphones just have a chat no we've done all the sort of project management protocol behind it from Project plan to project management maturity and and everything it's funny how you look back at your first and second year of subjects and it all actually makes sense like it all has built up to this one year this final year and this final subject and whatever like it actually comes together and you reflect and you think oh I now see how that works or what that meant that's that's been really rewarding but yeah as we said thanks so much for coming on Daniel thanks for having me you you've been a really good guest and and I'm sure people listening will really appreciate the time that you've given so thank you so much and best of luck in the future no worries thanks guys.
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